The Bailout: Public Anger, Private Talks

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by xcel, Sep 25, 2008.


What would you rather do with $700B (at least some of it)

  1. Have taxpayers keep it

    5 vote(s)
  2. Invest on renewable energy

    0 vote(s)
  3. Invest in R&D

    0 vote(s)
  4. Fix roads, bridges

    1 vote(s)
  5. Fund Social Security, etc

    0 vote(s)
  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Bush Administration officials warned of dire consequences should Congress delay or impose too many limits on Treasury's authority.

    [xfloat=left][/xfloat]Theo Francis and Jane Sasseen - Business Week - Sept. 24, 2008

    U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, President Bush and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke discussing the problems of the day…

    The last time the Bush Administration warned of dire consequences, we invaded a country to the tune of almost a $Trillion dollars and 4,171 US soldiers have been killed to date. What will we get this time around? -- Ed.

    Congress is wary of angry voters, but behind the scenes a compromise is forming. Executive pay restrictions may be near.

    With public sentiment casting the Bush Administration's plan to resolve the financial crisis as a bailout for the firms that caused it, Senate Banking Committee members took turns grilling Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke at a hearing on Sept. 23. Behind the scenes, however, many expected nuts-and-bolts negotiation to yield a compromise bill, perhaps over the weekend if not by Friday's scheduled adjournment. Agreement was already coalescing to require some restrictions on executive pay at companies that sell toxic assets to the Treasury, one financial-industry official said.

    The theater playing out on Capitol Hill on Tuesday reflected deeply held positions on the role of government and the economy, but with an eye toward how events would play out politically. Polls failed to give a clear picture of just how much support there is for Congress to act: Support ranged from 25% to 56% in different polls.

    Lawmakers worry that failing to back the bailout could hurt them, particularly in light of the Administration's warnings of the dire consequences of inaction and the reality of a tumbling stock market. At the same time, fears grew that a protracted debate could undermine support altogether as more questions are raised about the plan's costs and effectiveness… [rm][/rm]
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2008
  2. Indigo

    Indigo Witch with wry sense of humor

    I think Bush's legacy is going to be "Bailouts for Billionaires". He's just the worst... president... ever...
  3. voodoo22

    voodoo22 Cheaper than the bus

    People who aren't American can just not figure out how a country can vote for this guy twice. If the Republicans win again, all faith will be permanently lost for the majority of Americans.

    Not like our mini-Bush in Canada is any better. If we had 1/4 the power of the US I'm sure he'd be invading and pilfering with no respect of the consequences either.
  4. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    News stories on this have got me too wound up for words. I can't even write a coherent post on it.
  5. Earthling

    Earthling Trying to be kind to Mother Earth

    It's delusional to think that only Republicans are to blame for this. I would hope that serious reform will come of this, including limits on lobbying and corruption in our government.

  6. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger


    HCHCIN Well-Known Member

    Why is everyone mad at Brian?
  8. Ratnose86

    Ratnose86 Well-Known Member

    Can the politics please.
  9. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    This site is about sustainability - generally the fuel in the tank of your car, but I see America having a problem with this on several fronts: fuel, enviroment, and financial.

    On the desk of both Presidential canidates should be: "It's about sustainability - stupid"

    The turmoil on Wall Street threatening Main Street is about unsustainable economics.

    Historically we have swung from too much regulation to too little regulation (our present situation).

    "The greatest thread to capitalism is unregulated capitalism" - J. D. Rockefeller (of all people)
  10. lamebums

    lamebums Member

    I don't see what's wrong with the free market as it is. A true free market would be allowed to correct itself. The banks that took on the bad loans and the investors that took on bad mortgage securities should pay for their bad investment. It is not the taxpayer's problem. And to think that this bailout will free up credit? Great.

    Free up the opportunity so I can get credit. On my own tax dollars.

    The government deficit and its runaway spending is bad enough without another $700 Billion just to bail out the banks. That's more than Iraq has cost us for five years.

    And yes let's not turn this into a political Bush-bashing thread.
  11. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    A modest amount of regulation over the past generation would have avoided this mess. Instead, it will probably insure the election of Barack Obama and very likely too much regulation that will stunt growth. Wall Street was behaving too much like lassie faire capitalism in the late 1800's, inviting a backlash to possible socialism.

    If the Bush Administration had exercised some control, he could have been far more successful and McCain would have won in a landslide. This is what I'd preferred, but the greedy and bad decision makers were unchecked.

    I liken what Wall Street's failure to someone driving my MIMA Insight pretending they have five traction battery packs, beging for a replacement of the one they beat to death....unregulated capitailism is unsustainable and leads to socialism.
  12. bullwinkle428

    bullwinkle428 Well-Known Member

    Good luck with that, considering the guy's approval rating has slipped to 19%!
  13. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    Both parties are responsible for what's going on, but it's worth noting that Phil Gramm's legislative work in 1999 ended any meaningful regulation of the banking industry. (And by the way, he lobbies for banks and is McCain's economic advisor.)

    Free markets are a nice idea in theory, but regulation and oversight are necessary to some degree. I'm not sure exactly what that degree is, but since the S&L scandal the pattern we have is too little regulation, followed by a scandal that leads to a great deal of regulation. Once the crisis fades into memory, a process of deregulation begins that leads to corruption and crisis.
  14. koreberg

    koreberg Junior Member


    And lets not forget that it was passed under the clinton era.

    700 billion so this guy can help his buddies keep their golden parachutes. Some of the top executives were pulling in 80 million a year each.

    Thats like paying the bag boy at your local grocery store 500k a year so he can cram all your groceries into a bag that will break before you leave the store.

    All these guys can make these things float, just turn in some of their ridiculous saleries in place for stock options in the companies and use that as operating capitol. Start negotiating mortgages instead of simply repoing and not being able to sell.

    Instead they want to continue to rape the little guy by increasing his taxes.

    For a president and party that claims it likes the free market, they need to let the market work when their buddies are getting screwed, the same way they've let it work while the rest of us have got screwed for the past century.
  15. jstol3

    jstol3 Well-Known Member

    If I can be so bold as to claim to be an advisor to the president I will. I do have a direct line to his office ( I have tried to advise him about the gasoline price spiral, The problems of ILLEGAl immigration, unfettered speculation in the commodities markets, junk mortgages given to uncreditworthy people and a host of other problems and he isn't responing or acting. I think that he shot his own legacy in the foot. I think that, at this juncture, he is un-responsive and DOA.

    The bailout is a farce and should not happen. Let the execs and the companies they ran take their lumps!

    Common sense is something that has been missing from the American political scene for some time now!

    Enough for politics! Let's move on to hypermiling!
  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jstol3:

    ___For a person with that kind of potential power, thank you for hypermiling! About the only sane thing I have heard from this Administration in a long time was your post.

    ___Thank you and good Luck

  17. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    I don't think he meant that literally.
  18. hobbit

    hobbit He who posts articles

    Heh, you *think* you have a direct line by emailing anything
    to Nice illusion, isn't it? Any guesses as
    to the volume of mail that goes through such destinations and
    gets sent straight to /dev/null per hour?
  19. gershon

    gershon Well-Known Member

    Bush is trying very hard to blame the bailout on greedy Wall Street speculators in the same way he let's the illusion that the war in Iraq is based on 9/11 even though it's his own personal vendetta.

    Keep in mind the banks and mortgage lenders were FORCED to accept these toxic loans. Fannie Mae fought against them in 1998. And then later, I think it was in 2004, they lost a suit by the government when they tried to take a loss by writing down these loans. Time has proven them right, but I don't see the government wanting to return the $250 million fine to the shareholders.

    A bailout without limits on who can take a mortgage and other loans will just result in more of the same. How can we trust the same people who created the problem to know how to fix it?

    The senators from Colorado have said they are receiving tons of emails speaking out against the bailout. They specifically said these aren't your typical form emails, but individual opinions that have more impact on their decisions.

    The country is in a mess with a trend towards bailing out those who fail at the expense of those who make good decisions. There doesn't seem to be any place to go with our money except investing in toilet paper which is likely to double in price in the next year. (There is a lot of crap in our economy.)
  20. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    We have taxation with misrepresentation.

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