Bestmapman's TDIfest Fuel Economy Run

Discussion in 'Events and Gatherings' started by bestmapman, Aug 28, 2008.

  1. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    I am competing in the Fuel Economy Run at the 2008 TDIfest. In this thread, I will document my three day event. The TDIfest FE run is being conducted in an informal basis, and participating members are using their tanks coming to TDIfest as the run. Since TDIfest is in Cincinnati this year, and I am local, I am using the three days leading up to TDIfest as my drive in run. Fortunately, I have three trips that I need to make on the 3 days preceding TDIfest to get about 800-1000 miles on a tank.

    The steed. 2006 VW Jetta TDI

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    Day 1

    On the first day, I filled the tank and started the run. This day, I had a proof approval for a project in Troy, OH. It is about 75 miles from my home. I have to navigate through 2 major cities, Cincinnati and Dayton, Ohio with all the construction and traffic. Also the weather today was raining most of the time, as the remnants of Hurricane Fay came through the area.

    The first thing I did was fill the tank. I stuffed it as best that I could. Here is a pic with the fuel filled all the way to the top and the ODO and trip at fill.

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    One the way up, I ran into some pretty heavy rain. Here is a pic of the rain.

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    Route:

    I started in Fort Thomas, KY and traveled via interstates 471,and 75 to Troy had a 1 hour approval meeting and drove back to Fort Thomas.

    Here is a map of the route and the terrain.

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    Techniques I used.

    1) High speed P&G Nice ON

    For this I used the scan guage set on MPG, CFE, MAP and LOD (see pic below)
    I pulsed from 50 MPH to 55 MPH at LOD 42 which gives a MPG of about 50. I then selected neutral and Glided to 50 MPH and pulsed again. During the Glide the MPG would be about 315 MPG. This yields about 70 MPG on level terrain.

    2) FAS

    On the larger hills I would FAS. There is an issue with turbo cooldown In the TDI. I only FASed on long hills and after I let the turbo cooldown for 10.0 seconds.

    Here is pic showing the scanguage setup and the Glide slowing through 51 MPH.

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    At the end of Day 1 I traveled 152 miles on the ODO and 143 miles on the scan guage. The difference is the FAS distance.

    I used 2.05 gallons according to the scanguage. The gas guage is still pegged at full.

    Calculated MPG is 74.1 for the first day. Scanguage says 70.0 but does not take into account the FASes

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    Tomorrow I am off to Grovetown, IN to pick up a concrete fountain and maybe lunch with Larry.

    I hope to keep 70 MPG for the entire tank.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
  2. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry Super MPG Man/god :D

    Good luck on tomorrow's run and I'll see you at noon if all goes well. Oh, and I'll also take a Sprite.;)
     
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jud:

    ___For longer FAS’, you can swap the Diesel to Hybrid on the fly and take the FAS for recording. Just before you start her back up, you can set her back to Diesel b or whatever and continue on your merry way. It is a kludge of course but it worked with the NGV Civic I drove last year?

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  4. shifty35

    shifty35 Well-Known Member

    Nice to see someone consider the health of their turbo. I'm not particularly well acquainted with the particular type of turbo in the TDI - is it ball or journal bearing? I assume it's probably a variable vane turbo as well?

    Almost all OEM turbos are oil-lubricated and water-cooled. The oil does aid a little bit in cooling, but that's primarily the water's job. There is no need to allow 10s for the turbo to "cool-down" before FASing.

    However, if the turbo shaft is spinning fast, you do want to allow the shaft speed to slow before you shut down the engine and lose oil pressure. You don't want to leave the shaft spinning at high speed without proper lubrication.

    "Turbo timers" are really kinda overkill for a modern turbo, especially with the assuredly light duty yours sees. ;)

    It looks like you don't have an OEM boost gauge, but I'll venture the SG can show manifold pressure somewhere. Give yourself those 5-10s when you are coming off an aggressive throttle action where the turbo spins up and generated pressure, otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.
     
  5. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    Hi Shifty,

    Thanks for the comments,
     
  6. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    Day 2

    Finished the second day at 70.06 so far for the tank.

    I made a trip to Grovetown and Goshen Indiana and back to Cincinnati. Total distance today is 464 miles.

    Started out today with some more rain showers. Traveled to Grovetown Indiana to pick up a concrete fountain. I also stopped by Goshen Indiana and took Larry (DiamondLarry) out to Subway for lunch. Then returned to Cincinnati.

    Here is the route.

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    The terrain model is Cincinnati on the left, and Grovetown on the far right. It wouldn;t fit on one, so I had to make two.
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    On the way up, I ran into rush hour traffic in Indianapolis. It was a killer for the numbers. It was stop and go for about 45 minutes. I think I lost 2 MPG here. Here is a pic.

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    My first stop was to get the concrete fountain. I forgot to figure to weight of the fountain. It weighs about 700 lbs. This gave a big hit to FE also. Here is a pic of the place.

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    I met up with Larry, and he has installed a reostate for the temp on the Prius.

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    On the way home, I ran into heavy traffic in 2 places. Kokomo, and northern Indy again. I lost another few MPG's here also.

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    When I hit the 500 miles point, I was still just over 1/2 full on the guess guage

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    OK enough of the fun stuff, here are the numbers for the trip

    Segment 1 Cincinnati to Grovetown
    Segment miles 251
    Segment gal 3.43
    Segment MPG 73.2
    Total miles 394.6
    Total gal 5.48
    Total MPG 71.8

    Segment 3 Grovetown to Goshen
    Segment miles 53.7
    Segment gal 0.78
    Segment MPG 68.8
    Total miles 448.3
    Total gal 6.26
    Total MPG 71.6

    Segment 4 Goshen to Cincinnati
    Segment miles 287
    Segment gal 4.24
    Segment MPG 67.7
    Total miles 735.7
    Total gal 10.5
    Total MPG 70.06

    Also the SG is reporting 719 miles. The difference is the FAS miles. NOt many opportunities in Indiana, most are at the beginning and the end of the trip in Cincinnati.

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    SG is reporting 68.3. but this does not include the FAS miles.
    Total tank MPG to this point 70.06
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2008
  7. philmcneal

    philmcneal Has it been 10 years? Wow

    do you believe if you had the nwh20 prius you could do better than 70 mpg? Good report on the turbos shifty35
     
  8. Ophbalance

    Ophbalance Administrator Staff Member

    Dang... the TDI seems to be one heck of a choice for a highway car. What's your average speed on the intestates? What kind of mileage would that thing generate going, say, 55 MPH DWL on the interstate? I brought up to the missus that I may the TDI is on my list of cars to get when the Elantra runs no more. She's not fond of the idea, but would live with it.
     
  9. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    From all reports the new diesel will be worth significantly more.


    On the way up to Grovetown I was P&G Nice On between 50 and 55. I was sustaining 75 MPG at that speed. The segment numbers came down some due to the traffic around Indy.

    On the return trip. I was eager to get home, so I pushed it up to P&G bewteen 55-60. It would hold right at 70 MPG at those speeds. Now I had the extra weight from the fountain.
     
  10. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    I've seen it on the Honda i-CDTi. The Scangauge MAP gauge will go past ambient under boost. You can just subtract ambient from that to see how much boost there is.
     
  11. Ophbalance

    Ophbalance Administrator Staff Member

    Oh now that is just sweet.... I guess I'd have to plug the numbers into excel to see how that compares with mileage from say a fit/yaris/whatever versus the current premium that diesel carries over gas. Course... I'm stuck with what I've got until the wheels fall off, so it's all a pipe dream at the moment anyway ;). If the Elantra died today, I think I'd try shooting for a used late 90s saturn with a stick.
     
  12. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Matthew, you could try for a 5spd Elantra too -- mine's been worth high 60s to low 70s (and one 77mpg run!) recently. ;)

    Not that something like Larry's old Saturn (now driven by his son, CobraPond to 90+mpg) isn't better...
     
  13. Ophbalance

    Ophbalance Administrator Staff Member

    I did consider the newer Elantras. The thing is, I drive almost all highway. You're driving mostly urban, correct? I can't see doing HS P&G every day for 100 miles. That's a whole heck of a lot of work ;). Also, they roadway isn't... mmm... conductive? Mayhap. Conductive to a pulse and glide. Even leaving at oddball hours (between 8:30-9 AM) and coming back (4 PM), there's a ton of traffic on I40. If the TDI can pull almost steady speed numbers that high in MPH, that'd be the one for me. Now, it may all be a moot point anyway as I can't even think about a new car until the Sedona is paid off.
     
  14. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    I filled up on the way to TDIfest.
    Total mlies 746.6
    Total gal 10.9
    SG miles 724
    SG gallons 10.6
    SG MPG 68.3
    Calculated MPG 68.4
     
  15. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Yes, I drive mostly city traffic, but I've regularly done 130+mi trips on the highway using HS P&G in the Elantra to net low 50's. Yeah, it gets tiring, but you'd be surprised how quickly you can become accustomed to it. Something to keep in mind is that I normally only use NICE-ON for the P&G at higher speeds because the ECU reboot time is so long -- this holds the numbers down further than they should be. When I had my other commute (mostly highway) and I was just getting into this heavily last summer I was able to work the terrain better than on my other trips and get upper 50's out of the car over 36mi -- I FASed more on that route because I could get longer glides than when (for example) I drive the 130mi trip up to my inlaws' cabin.

    As soon as I rig up a FAS switch in the car, that ECU reboot issue is nullified and I'll FAS on all glides.

    Just something to think about, though I agree that nearly steady state with most attention on DWL is much more relaxing for long trips (that's what I do with the Insight since lean burn is a tad more efficient than HS P&G in that car).

    Incidentally, if your commute is almost entirely highway with reasonable speed the HCH could be a very nice car for you as well. Have a look at the newly posted write-up in the reviews section.
     
  16. Ophbalance

    Ophbalance Administrator Staff Member

    Hmm... well, it looks like (on average) you can pick up a five year old HCH for about 10k. That puts it into the "might could afford" range once the Sedona is all ours. I need to figure out a way to siphon off funds starting yesterday ;).
     
  17. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    Here are the final numbers

    Name________________MPG___vehicle_________%EPA
    bestmapman__________68.4___06 Jetta 5sp_____207.2
    jasonh_______________53.2___05 Passat auto___198.9
    Lug Nut______________50.2___05 Passat auto___185.9
    BRUSSELS BELGIAN____65.9___97 Passat 5sd____183.0
    vikingrob_____________46.5___04 Beetle auto___140.9
    TD__________________53.1___04 Jetta 5sp_____147.5
     
  18. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry Super MPG Man/god :D

    It seems we have a celebrity in our midst.:woot: Very nice work! Were you being nice to them and only held the mpg gap to 15+mpg?:D Congratulations.
     
  19. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Excellent work, Jud!! We're proud of you. :D:thumbs_up:
     
  20. Ophbalance

    Ophbalance Administrator Staff Member

    Alright, so, is there anything you did to get such a resounding lead over the others? Just slower driving, or more FAS?
     

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