Polar Ice Likely to Disappear This Summer

Discussion in 'Environmental' started by xcel, Jun 28, 2008.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Polar scientists reveal dramatic new evidence of climate change.

    [xfloat=left]http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Melting_Sea_Ice_could_match_last_years_record.jpg[/xfloat]Steve Connor - The Independent - June 27, 2008

    Millions of Square KM of sea ice covering the Arctic Ocean month after month.

    And some still believe Global Warming is still not occurring or that it is in no way shape or form man induced :confused: -- Ed.

    It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.

    The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

    "From the viewpoint of science, the North Pole is just another point on the globe, but symbolically it is hugely important. There is supposed to be ice at the North Pole, not open water," said Mark Serreze of the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado…

    The polar regions are experiencing the most dramatic increase in average temperatures due to global warming and scientists fear that as more sea ice is lost, the darker, open ocean will absorb more heat and raise local temperatures even further…[rm]http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/exclusive-no-ice-at-the-north-pole-855406.html[/rm]
     
  2. sailordave

    sailordave Well-Known Member

  3. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA

    What a difference a month makes, thought I'd post the updated graph.

    [​IMG]

    There would have to be a huge change to exceed last year at this point. There will be no kayaking to the pole this year.
     
  4. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Could the ice be getting thinner due to the active volcanos 4Km under artic Ice pack?
    volcanoes
     
  5. Tochatihu

    Tochatihu Well-Known Member

    The authors of the Gakkel ridge paper measured water column temperatures, but did not report them in Nature. This could mean either that the temperatures were uninterestingly normal, or that the authors are concealing them for some unknown reason. I tend towards the former explanation.

    DAS
     
  6. If you were a scientist and said this you would be shunned, excommunicated, and lose all your grant money for not telling the "truth".

    Keep your doors locked also the global warming ninjas will be there soon. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2008
  7. A024523

    A024523 Currently in Training

    I was just watching an episode of "Ice Road Truckers" and wondered how long before their profession is no longer feasible, due to thin ice.
     
  8. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    I heard Inuvik is the next Miami. Quick buy land up there.
     
  9. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA

  10. msantos

    msantos Eco Accelerometrist

    This is all very eerily consistent with all the other things that are happening in my own province.:ccry:



    MSantos
     
  11. basjoos

    basjoos Well-Known Member

    Maybe this means we'll have a return of the polar deciduous forest ecosystem to northern Canada, Greenland, and Siberia after a harsh 5 million year long hiatus of ice and snow. It would be nice to see the trees re-occupy their forner range. The growth rates in that ecosystem must have been amazing during the 24 hour long days of the summer and certainly biologically much more productive than it is in its current state where it is covered with ice and snow for most of the year. The polar decidous forest ecosystem is currently extinct, although many of the plant species that belonged to it are still around.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2008
  12. those -50 temps they always show seems to answer that.

    Wonder what kind of MPG they get since they are going slower.
     
  13. A024523

    A024523 Currently in Training

    Me, too. Other factors in play, extremely cold air and unusaully heavy cargo would decrease FE, reduced road friction would increase FE.
     
  14. msantos

    msantos Eco Accelerometrist

    Indeed, and those ancient clues showing of what it once was, seem to be the source of even bigger concerns as the thicker ancient ice layers continue to melt:
    There are mind numbing levels of methane that are being released into the atmosphere as we speak that most climatologists warning of global climate change DID NOT factor into their calculations. My fear is that IF we believe these scientists are supporting a political agenda by being alarmists then what lies ahead may be even worse than what they claim. Much worse. :ccry:

    Cheers

    MSantos
     
  15. Your right we have no way of knowing the truth. Of course the reality could be different than that. Political agendas could be inflating the numbers the other way showing worse than reality.

    Either way we need to be more mindful of our environment.

    Its been eye opening to see China's situation. If people think we are bad look at them!
     
  16. azraelswrd

    azraelswrd Well-Known Member

    We used to be like China in industrial waste output in and around population centers. I won't be surprised if it takes them that much time to make the necessary changes or if politics will get in the way again.
     
  17. pdk

    pdk Beacon of Sanity

    The great thing about science is that it's very open. Studies are reviewed and scrutinized to within an inch of their life, and facts, sources, and assumptions are explicitly laid out in anything that is published. If somehow something of questionable merit got through, it's still out there in the open for anyone to read and, if they disagree, offer an alternative explanation of the facts or introduce other facts to show that they are wrong.

    Honestly, people who sincerely doubt the peer review process have never been part of it or seen part of it. It's not a love fest (or else it would be "friend review"), it can get downright brutal. Even thesis defenses and practice talks which are supposed to be friendlier can get quite argumentative. The point of the peer review process is not to get together to find out ways to get more money, it's to scrutinize ideas so that only sound ones get through, to make sure that science remains scientific and fact-based.

    There might very well be some sycophantic tendencies among climatologists, so if you believe this is the case, your task is clear. Find some facts, figures, and hard evidence to call their conclusions into question. Don't simply attack the messengers by claiming "grant money" or "conspiracy", show them that they are misguided by taking apart their arguments with more than an "I don't think so".
     
  18. shifty35

    shifty35 Well-Known Member

    I fail to see how a 1 year trend supports a conclusion either way. Both this year and last year seem to be below the last 100 yr average.

    Hell, it still wouldn't prove anything if it were *above* the black line.

    Statistics fo da win.
     
  19. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA

    The dispute as I understand it is over this from the article.

    "The issue is that, for the first time that I am aware of, the North Pole is covered with extensive first-year ice – ice that formed last autumn and winter. I'd say it's even-odds whether the North Pole melts out," said Dr Serreze.

    "Last year we saw huge areas of the ocean open up, which has never been experienced before. People are expecting this to continue this year and it is likely to extend over the North Pole. It is quite likely that the North Pole will be exposed this summer – it's not happened before," Professor Wadhams said.

    Here's the ice extent from yesterday and a year ago.

    [​IMG]

    The evidence says that it is not likely that 2008 will break the 2007 record let alone be "ice-free".

    It proves that these 2 scientists aren't good odds makers in their area of expertise.
     

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