Dan's review of the TCH

Discussion in 'Toyota Camry Hybrid' started by Dan, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. swhoutx035

    swhoutx035 Casual Hypermiler

    Hi Dan, my commute is relatively short (less than 8 miles and less than 18 minutes one way) the first five minutes or so is through school zones in the morning, and in congestion getting to the freeway in the afternoon so I don't get to SHM very much and my MPG during warmups really suffers. I know we discussed this at the clinic, but do you have any more suggestions now that you've had a few days of driving a TCH of your own?
     
  2. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Well-Known Member


    Engine block heater.

    Wayne
     
  3. swhoutx035

    swhoutx035 Casual Hypermiler

    Hi Wayne. thanks. That was one of the things we talked about at the clinic. I was just curious if he had any suggestions that didn't require hard modifications after having had a chance to drive some on his own. He really only got to spend a little time behind the wheel of mine when we met.
     
  4. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    Hook up a gauge and find SHM in city driving. It works down in the 20 mph range too, it's just hard to stay out of EV. What you do is hold 1100 RPM for about 10-15 seconds, then watch for the MPG to bump about 10-20 mpg. Then the IGN will fall to about 17-18 if your lucky, you can settle with "Fair Highway Mode (FHM)" with an IGN of 19 or 20.

    One other thing of interest... SG registers spuratic fuel-cut in SHM. Dialing up MPG on SGII shows 9999 then 54 then 64 then 9999 then 64... Interesting..

    I watched LP and didn't see much unusual there. CLSD the whole time, but it must open if 9999 registers.

    11011011
     
  5. swhoutx035

    swhoutx035 Casual Hypermiler

    Thanks for the input Dan. I may have to get me a SGII afterall. I am also going to play with a couple of different routes. There's one that looks promising but it is through a warehouse district that will work out pretty good unless one of the trains that stop frequently over the tracks and sit for long periods of time catches me.
     
  6. psyshack

    psyshack He who posts articles

    Its been fun reading this....
     
  7. coolshock1

    coolshock1 Active Member

    Hey Dan. I haven't been using a scanguage or doing advanced techniques. I've had my TCH for about 120 days with a lifetime combined avg of 40.77mpg. If I can hold where I am for this tank i will hit 47mpg per mfd and realistically 45-46 by hand. With your experience do you think I should be satisfied with these numbers? I know when winter hits Chicago that I will take a hit. I figure I should hopefully be able to hold an average of 36mpg over the winter....hopefully. I don't know if 5-10mpg drop is reasonable to guess at.
     
  8. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    20% over EPA is good in any vehicle. What's an acceptable number depends a lot on your needs, but I think your doing great. Hitting big numbers takes certain sacrifices, like going without AC. This isn't an option for lots of people who can't really go to a client all sweaty.

    11011011
     
  9. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Well-Known Member

    If your worried about your winter numbers in Chicago you need the engine block heater and to block up your grill.

    Wayne
     
  10. coolshock1

    coolshock1 Active Member

    Thanks guys. I am going to do a search but incase you happen to know of better products or deals could you give me some ideas on both please? I will post what I find.
     
  11. coolshock1

    coolshock1 Active Member

  12. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Well-Known Member

    Try www.metrotpn.com. Actually call Jesse there and ask if it's the same for the Camry as the Prius. I believe with the new part numbers the block heater manufacturer has put out it is the same part number. If so contact Bradlee Fons at brad@milwaukeehybridgroup.com. The Milwaukee Hybrid Group is having a group buy right now for a better price. If your coming to Hybridfest you can maybe pick one up there. And if you pick it up at Hybridfest I'll install it for free at Hybridfest.

    Wayne
     
  13. coolshock1

    coolshock1 Active Member

    Thanks. I'll check it out. I'm actually thinking about attempting the install myself. Someone posted installation instructions with pictures on GH for the TCH. I do appreciate the offer.

    Unfortunately I won't be going to Hybridfest. I have an almost 7mo old and a 3 yr old. Right now I don't think my life expectancy would be to long if I took a road trip up there.

    What do you use for covering the grill in the winter?
     
  14. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Well-Known Member

    Foam pipe insulation.

    Wayne
     
  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    ___I was fortunate enough to take out a newer hypermiler out in his 2008 TCH at the HF2008 Hypermiling Clinics on Sunday morning. Using IG18/19 and TPS 18/19 SHM, the driver achieved an excellent 61 mpg on a 20 + mile all highway round trip clinic to my amazement. It appears to work even easier than in the Prius as the ICE was not fighting to get away from it let alone being able to hold it even easier by all appearance. The student was wearing work boots of all things too ;)

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  16. coolshock1

    coolshock1 Active Member

    Alright sir.....can you put that in plain English for us noobs pleeeeeease? Thank you.

    Maybe it's because I've never been on a flat stretch of road for a long enough time but the best I can get it to hold is 50mpg for about 5-10 minutes. I can't remember driving on flat roads for longer than that.
     
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi CoolShock1:

    ___As we begin to push the hybrids to ever higher numbers, we are discovering what Dan did early on. You have to have a ScanGauge or other scanner capable of watching IGN (Ignition timing) in real time. TPS is throttle position sensor but it is the IGN that is the key in my 20 + miles of limited TCH highway driving. IGN of 18 or 19 and TPS of 18 or 19 and you are golden with 70 + showing on the iFCD (instantaneous fuel consumption display). Speeds were in the 48 to 55 mph range while DWL.

    ___As for hills, we were on State Route 12/18 in Madison and it has elevation deltas of ~ 50 - 75’ every mile or two so continuous light hills would describe the terrain. IIRC, the owner was setup at 50 psi all around and boy are the big engines easy to hold a great FE level vs. the “Battle royale” when driving the Prius and HCH-II.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  18. coolshock1

    coolshock1 Active Member

    AH that makes sense now. I have found the slightly rolling hills to be my friend. You can still hold a decent FE on the upside by slowly losing some speed and then pick it back up riding the down slope. Is that how you guys achieved that high FE?

    This is my first time in 20 years since I have driven a 4 cylinder. I was leary of it. I am suprised at how much power there is when you need it, but it also helps that I have totally changed my driving habits?

    Your explanation of some of the acronyms and what you watch with the scan guage totally cleared things up for me. I guess I am already "working" some of the things you guys do, but I am just doing it blindly and ignorant.

    I am pretty competitive so learning the TCH has kind of been like a game for me. I don't like being on the bottom end of the curve. Thanks for the explanation.

    I have been running 42psi in my tires. I got my first oil change at the dealer last night (the first was at a local shop) and they set my tires back to 32. I asked them if they could put them back at 42 and they said ok but the guy sitting at the desk tried to tell my why I shouldn't go up that high. I explained to him how I got an increase of 2-3 mpg out of it and that it was safe to go up to the rating on the sidewall. He tried to tell me the rating wasn't true....then I laid some facts on him about how it was, how my company is in the tire industry in a roundabout way and how I have actually been in 2 of Cooper Tires manufacturing plants and talked to some knowledgeable tire guys. Then I asked him how many TCH's he's had come in with 46mpg on the MFD and he told me very few. He did say he gets a lot of Prii at that level and he thought that was good.....boy he doesn't know their capabilities does he??!!

    Do you think if I increased the tire pressure any higher I would see much more gain?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2008
  19. cephraim

    cephraim Noob

    I have the 2008 Nissan Altima Hybrid which, as you guys probably know, uses the same hybrid components as the TCH. I also have a SG.

    Would most of Dan's and Wayne's recommendations for SG data apply to my NAH?

    If not, any chance you can get ahold of an NAH to perform similar testing???:)

    Thanks!
    Eph
     
  20. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    Cool... I actually didn't know that.

    11011011
     

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