New Ford Escape Hybrid – Glide technique…

Discussion in 'Ford Hybrids' started by xcel, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Good points Carl

    Today, I used the DGE with a combination of the LGA in that I did a FS in "L" as soon as I had a restart. This boost my SoC and lowered my speed as it always does, but for my slow acceleration to 32mph my SoC was ready for a long EV coast and mode. I did the FS in "D" to go EV instead of "L" the second time for a much more efficient coast into EV. This reduces heat in the battery over the long run for me in 90 degree weather. You may have to adjust even more for your hotter climate.

    I estimate a 15mpg increase in my mileage in my conditions and E-10 today. Needless to say I'm very happy with what Dan has pointed out. I will use what works in my conditions and the year my FEH offers. Like you, I know the '08 operates much different than the '05 FEH as far as regen.

    At 110 degrees, your going to have to run the A/C period! At 45mph with the A/C might be the best you can do Carl.

    GaryG
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  2. ranger01

    ranger01 ranger01

    Novice has some Q's, first I assume LGA is low gear advantage. Next, good descrip of method, but what comes next, that is you say Rense? reset and repeat or? How far do you glide, how slow do glide down to, how far do you go before doing D-DGE again? It seems to make sense reading it, but when I think about doing it, I have trouble seeing the 'cycle' of it driving down the road.

    And, do you really mean SLAM it in to neutral, don't like the idea of doing that over and over on the mechanisms!
     
  3. ranger01

    ranger01 ranger01

    Further, meant to add: Merely reading, I picture this (and this can't possibly be what you mean!), the FEH going down the road, hitting 30, slowing down, umm say 20, going up to 30, going down to 20, over and over. And I just can't see that on any road unless there was no other traffic around, and if there were it would be looking for trouble. Thus, put me in the real picture, as it can't be what I just stated!
     
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Ranger01:

    ___P&G in traffic is where it makes the most sense because traffic when in a stop and crawl does pulse and glide. Except most get < 5 mpg while many CleanMPG members are pulling 10 to 25 times that much :)

    ___There is no slamming and the FEH Mechanism is not actually attached to any transmission. You never slam anything if you can avoid it.

    ___For the 20 to 30 question, you use whatever is allowed. If that means 36 and than 18 to 28 to 5 than 50 to 22, you use it. In heavy traffic, place your CC on and you will inadvertently smash into the bumper in front of you within seconds in most cases. There is no steady state in most cities through much of the day. At least not the big cities I drive/have driven in?

    ___Don’t worry about picking up everything your first time out. It takes years to get this stuff working just right in your vehicle but by all means place yourself on a continuous improvement schedule. If today your FEH is allowing 32 mpg, try and pull 35 from it by the end of July. Pull a few 40 mpg segments before fall and keep moving the bar higher and higher. Your old high will be your new floor and so on. Hopefully what you will see is no fall off as winter approaches and than next year, look out because the FEH is a FE animal :)

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  5. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hey Ranger

    You don't have to P&G using this technique. What I liked was how I could maintain 30mph and have my mileage average climb to 55mpg. Everything was real smooth with the cars behind me and I was doing the speed limit. As the SoC reached 43%, I slowly increased my speed to 31-32mph and let off the gas pedal in "D" to drop into EV at 30mph. I would hold 30mph in EV and stay in "D" with no shifting until a restart with the SoC a little below 40%. You should even be able to set the cruise control at 30mph (I'll try this soon) and after a restart, just slowly accelerate as the SoC increases as you slowly increase speed to 31-32mph for another glide into EV. The P&G can be used with how traffic or something requires you to slowdown ahead. If your in Cruise Control, just shift to "N" (which will cancel CC) and glide to the slower speed. Use "L" for braking if needed and the brake pedal if required.

    As Dan pointed out, this is the most efficient transition between ICE and EV. The only drawback is the highest speed is limited to 30mph in the '05 through '08 FEH/MMH. Over 30mph just use the LGA or double tap in "D" or "L" to go EV under 40mph.

    GaryG
     
  6. ranger01

    ranger01 ranger01

    Thanks all for the info, time to get out, find some quiet roads and practise!:)
     
  7. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Just returned from my commute and while in cruise control at 30mph the ICE did not shutdown with this technique.

    GaryG
     
  8. rdprice64

    rdprice64 Still Learning

    Just made a soccer practice pickup; 8.4 miles, 51.4 mpg, from a cold start. While in CC at 30 mph my ICE did not shutdown either. The RPMs seemed to stay at about 1500 while in CC. Once in EV mode, I was able to CC at 31 mph over a flat segment, but I think it depleted the SoC much faster than if I had stayed in manual control,so I don't plan to use CC at these speeds anymore.

    - Rob
     
  9. lone ranger

    lone ranger Well-Known Member

    Hi

    I might be missing something here. I have an 07 FEH. I tried the DGE and saw no noticebale difference from just P&G when I leave it in drive. What am I missing? What might I be doing wrong in the DGE method if I'm not seeing anything? What exactly is the hiccup of the tach that I am looking for before putting it in N? This all looks so easy on paper. :confused: :eek:

    Thanks
     
  10. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    Well if you have a controlled course you can test on, you'll find you glide further when you shift to "N" than you do if you leave it in "D". So since you glide furthest in "N" the point of D-DGE is two fold. 1) Get the engine to cut out as quickly as possible and 2) To get to "N" as quickly after the engine cuts out as possible.

    If you watch REAL close you'll see the tach move from 1050 RPM to 1000 RPM to 1025 RPM to 0000 RPM. So when you see the tack jump down to 1000ish start watching for it to blip up for about 200 ms. When that happens the engine has committed to shutting down and nothing will stop it so your safe to shift to N.

    11011011
     
  11. rmcmast

    rmcmast Well-Known Member

    I got a chance to use this for the first time today. Took a while since most of my driving is unfortunately highway. A few times on one rural highway close to home I tried a little P&G on some of the few flat stretches around here. Not only does it drop into EV after accelerating at the end of a pulse, if you are decelerating from a higher speed and drop past 30mph, the ICE cuts out every time! It brought the end of a not so good drive up to over 39mpg! Thanks, Dan!

    -- Rick
     
  12. rdprice64

    rdprice64 Still Learning

    Well, I filled up tonight and using this new glide for ~the last 200 miles helped me boost up to 43.3 mpg :D I'm sure some of the other techniques effected this tank as well, but bumping up +2 from my previous high tank is great news for me.

    Thanks for the detailed descriptions, they definitely helped! Hopefully someone at HF2008 will make a video of some real experts using this and other techniques and post it here for those unfortunate soles :ccry: who cannot attend? Please? Pretty Please? With sugar on top?

    - Rob
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2008
  13. escape_tkm

    escape_tkm Active Member

    FYI.
    I've read my 2008 FEH book and it says it can be flat towed all 4 wheels on the ground upto 75mph. but can only be started in P.
     
  14. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    This is true about the FEH/MMH can be towed 4 down up to 75mph, but you can restart in "N" if your moving over 6mph. The '09 manual now warns against restarting the engine in "N" while moving. The new programming can also now monitor your driving history. Ford may void your warranty if you drive using Key Off FAS now. Ford says in the '09 manual they will also void your engine warranty if you use any oil other than approved 5-20W. The engine has a 5yr 60,000 mile warranty, so my advice is not to use 0-20W.
    http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO9HEV/~MUS~LEN/41/09hevog1e.pdf

    GaryG
     
  15. escape_tkm

    escape_tkm Active Member

    GaryG,
    DO you know anyone with a 2008 that can start the FEH if moving over 6MPH ?
     
  16. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    No one has posted about doing it but I haven't heard of any changes in the '08 workshop manual. Neutral gear consist of 2 neutral operating states: active neutral above 6mph, and passive neutral below 6mph. In active neutral, the generator motor is permitted to start and stop the ICE as needed to maintain the HV battery charge, and provide A/C. In passive neutral, the engine must remain in the state it was (running or not running) when the mode was entered and not permitted to change state (start or stop). The vehicle cannot be started in passive neutral, but can be started in active neutral. This comes from the '05 Escape Hybrid Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis Service Manual

    You can test passive neutral while in EV by turning on your A/C to max and the engine won't start if you are in passive neutral (under 6mph). Had this happen going through a car wash and had to wait for A/C till I could shift back to drive as I exited.

    The fact that the '09 owner's manual tells you not to restart in neutral leads me to believe there has been no change in active neutral and you can still restart above 6mph.

    GaryG
     
  17. escape_tkm

    escape_tkm Active Member

    I will try the A/C tirck you listed above. thanks
     
  18. bruski1959

    bruski1959 Well-Known Member

    Hi Gary,

    You mentioned the '08 workshop manual' in this post, and I believe you have mentioned it in other posts. Can you supply any more information? I suspect this might some kind of manual that can be purchased from Ford.

    Anyhow I am glad we have this technique out in the open. Will have to give it a try, or maybe I am already using it and I don't know it.

    The one thing I love about the FEH that has been mentioned in this thread is that little blip on the tachometer around 1000 RPM before it drops into EV mode. The other thing I get excited about either when coasting in drive or neutral is when the instantaneous MPG starts heading over 100 MPG.

    Do you thing it would make sense to get your writeup on hypermiling the FEH/MMH into this forum? Seems like there are some differences between the various years 2005-2009 scattered around in various threads that may not be obvious especially to newcomers, which I am not far off from being one.

    Another thing I think might be useful is to get a more thorough discussion of the FEH SGII x-gauges. I have all of my gauges programmed into my SGII, but what I still don't have a good feel for is the range of the gauges, what is good, what is not so good, when to use them with which FE techniques. So for the most part I just use MPG, MPH, SOC, and GPH. I think I read somewhere about a new x-gauge for cost per mile, but haven't seen it anywhere.

    For kicks today, I ran a report of the mileage logs, and I think I counted like 18 FEH and 5 MMH. Was wondering if anybody out there is driving a Mazda Tribute Hybrid. Can't ever remember seeing one on the road. Seems like there is a range of about 26-40 MPG in the 23 of us that post our logs, so I am hoping that we could help each other get our FE over the EPA MPG for our vehicles. It has taken me almost 6 months to get my vehicle over the EPA average, and now I am trying to catch up with the czarina DebbieKatz!

    Thanks to Wayne for putting up our own community forum!
    Do you think it would make sense to include the MMH and the Mazda Tribute into this community forum, as it may not be intuitively obvious to new users that are driving the MMH or Mazda Tribute that this forum is for them too?

    Thanks,
    Bruce
     
  19. Jimmydreams

    Jimmydreams Well-Known Member

    Hi everyone!

    I hope this isn't a dead thread!! I'd like to ask a question or two about my '09 FEH.

    I have the Nav system, and when I'm looking at my HEV page, the SoC only seems to go one bar above the halfway point. Is it supposed to go all the way to the top? I'm wondering if I'm not doing enough to bring the SoC up before using it up again by using the electric motor.

    Also, would it be of much benefit to get a SG-II considering I have SOME data available via the Nav system?

    Thanks in advance for your help!!

    JimmyD
     
  20. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    Best SoC for city driving is midrange, so your doing fine. What you want to try to do in a glide is not use the battery at all. As odd as it sounds a big part of hypermiling a hybrid is to stay away from the battery. Converting energy from the wheels to the battery, and from the battery to the wheels is all a lossy process. I know it sounds odd, but there you go. Doing an EV pulse will actually hurt your FE in the end. The more EV you use, the more gas your gonna burn to try to replenish the loss SoC. Only good time to use EV is if you have a PHEV vehicle.

    11011011
     

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