CleanMPG and Drafting

Discussion in 'General' started by Chuck, May 17, 2008.

  1. scissorhands

    scissorhands Well-Known Member

    Staring at at the back of a large vehicle in front that dominates your view has to be one of the most awful unenjoyable ways to take a journey. Add stress from being too close and I'd rather stay at home
     
  2. hobbit

    hobbit He who posts articles

    Resurrecting this thread a little -- stumbled across another
    article in which it's clear that someone was drinking the koolaid.
    The ATA is one of the larger/influential trucking organizations,
    so it would be good to try and get this one fully retracted.
    .
    Should I chase this one? I've probably got a few hard questions
    for the guy.
    .
    _H*
     
  3. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry Super MPG Man/god :D

    I wonder if they will be as hard on one of their own as they are on the supposed menace of hypermilers?:eyebrow::rolleyes:
     
  4. fixedintime

    fixedintime Well-Known Member

    They say:

    "ATA recently learned that drafting is being promoted by two websites dedicated to “hypermiling,” and several recent news articles have described the hazardous fad."

    Why don't they name the sites?

    If there are two such site, perhaps we should make a serious effort to change what they are doing.

    And even if they can name two site it is worth pointing out to the group that more balance reporting is needed in that there are mainline hypermilers and hypermiler sites that condemn the practice.
     
  5. fixedintime

    fixedintime Well-Known Member

    I went to the American Trucking Association web site and did a search on hypermiling and came up with only one link. It is for a press release over a year old.
     
  6. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    One thing I've noticed about many trucking, off-roading, and gearhead forums - they close much of their boards to the public - not a very good commentary about the citizenship of those members. In fact, I often have to type characters on an image as a guest.

    Anyway, over a year ago, I approached an administrator after passing thru Fort Knox-like security. After offering them to post at CleanMPG and me do likewise, I got a meaningless "glad we agree". :rolleyes: .
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  7. hobbit

    hobbit He who posts articles

    I tried to wander around the ATA site too, and this is what I get:
    .
    Code:
    
                       Server Error in '/truckline' Application.
       ______________________________________________________________________
    
      Index and length must refer to a location within the string. Parameter name: length
    
       Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of
       the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more
       information about the error and where it originated in the code.
    
       Exception Details: System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index and
       length must refer to a location within the string. Parameter name:
       length
    
       Source Error:
    
       An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the
       current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of
       the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.
    
       Stack Trace:
    
      [ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index and length must refer to a location within the string.
      Parameter name: length]
       System.String.Substring(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length) +208
       Karamasoft.WebControls.UltimateMenu.CreateMenuForDLB(HtmlTextWriter output,
      XmlNode& groupNode, String groupId, String topLevel) +3044
       Karamasoft.WebControls.UltimateMenu.Render(HtmlTextWriter output) +3441
       System.Web.UI.Control.RenderControl(HtmlTextWriter writer) +243
       System.Web.UI.Control.RenderChildren(HtmlTextWriter writer) +72
       System.Web.UI.HtmlControls.HtmlForm.RenderChildren(HtmlTextWriter writer) +44
       System.Web.UI.HtmlControls.HtmlForm.Render(HtmlTextWriter output) +262
       System.Web.UI.Control.RenderControl(HtmlTextWriter writer) +243
       System.Web.UI.Control.RenderChildren(HtmlTextWriter writer) +72
       System.Web.UI.Control.Render(HtmlTextWriter writer) +7
       System.Web.UI.Control.RenderControl(HtmlTextWriter writer) +243
       System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain() +1926
       ______________________________________________________________________
    
       Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.2032;
       ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.2032
    
    
    .
    I have to run some errands this morning but I'll see if I can't raise
    an actual human or two later today.
    .
    _H*
     
  8. visionseeming

    visionseeming Well-Known Member

    I think we should also include here that treating stops as yields and not allowing people to pass/forcing them to drive "slow" is not something that is endorsed as well.
     
  9. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    Especially driving slow in the Left lane. That's what they usually try to latch on to.
     
  10. lamebums

    lamebums Member

    I still say the problem is idiots trying to go fast in the slow lane. :angry:

    Especially speeding semi's.
     
  11. Daed

    Daed Member

    Yes, but that's an accepted practice. As for treating stop signs as yield signs, I think the folks that do that more often are the same ones weaving recklessly in and out of lanes, honking, flashing lights, etc. That seems to be accepted practice too, since I never see any of these people pulled over by police.
     
  12. hobbit

    hobbit He who posts articles

    I reached Clayton Boyce at the ATA, who said the basis for the
    article was from over a year ago, and that he's personally talked
    with Wayne about this stuff. His phone was having trouble so
    he could only hear about half of what I was saying, but he was
    reasonably cordial and definitely wanted to hear more about the
    "safer take" we're promoting and asked to take it to email. So
    I've got a little piece I'm trying to finish up on "what is
    hypermiling from a safety standpoint" which I'll basically send
    him, along with the standard query of "what's the best way to
    get trucks off my butt without calling EVERY one of them in".
    .
    _H*
     
  13. hobbit

    hobbit He who posts articles

    Here's a draft of the "what is hypermiling" piece I've decided
    to try and finish before following up with Mr. Boyce and optionally
    the eTrucker people too. Comments welcome. Some variant of
    this could help add to a body of general CleanMPG statements
    on the topic, if someone wants.

    =====

    What is hypermiling, from a traffic safety standpoint?
    .
    It is NOT about drafting trucks, or turning one's car completely off
    at highway speeds, or poking along and blocking traffic -- despite
    what certain uninformed and misguided publicity people at AAA and some
    other organizations would have us believe.
    .
    Hypermiling is about total concentration and precise, smooth control
    of a vehicle. The primary effects are minized fuel consumption and
    increased safety. When a hypermiler is out traveling on the roads,
    attaining high efficiency is merely part of what's going on -- the
    entire process becomes an integrated whole, a flowing union between
    human and machine and the surrounding environment. In this state of
    awareness I stay 100% focused on the task of DRIVING, keeping track
    of everything in front of me, behind me, to the sides, and what's
    transiting the blind spots. It is a highly predictive process, in
    which I'm watching relative rates of other vehicles fore and aft,
    what lane they're in and figuring where they're likely to be in the
    next ten seconds, who's heading in from an on-ramp or side street and
    how fast and bunched-up they are, and what the terrain is doing up
    ahead past the merge point ... and at the same time, watching my RPM
    and engine load and battery current and speed and altitude [yes,
    altitude, on the GPS -- it matters] and calculating the best control
    change to adapt to all of that input with as little "lurch" as
    possible. I also determine what I can about the attitude of nearby
    drivers based on actions, facial expressions, or any other kinesthetic
    language I can read from the vehicles or the people in them, and take
    that into account. With practice and attention, one can obtain an
    astonishing amount of information just from how the nose of someone
    else's car moves. Other more subtle observations most people would
    never think about, such as soft-looking tires on another car, also
    contributes to the equation and the possibilities of what could
    happen in the immediate future.
    .
    This is my ONLY job when I'm on the road. Anything extraneous such
    as a phone or coffee or radio would detract from that, which is for
    the most part unacceptable. Any distraction absorbs some of that
    essential mental bandwidth, and coming at the wrong moment that could
    be fatal. Some minor distractions are inevitable for anyone on the
    road but I strive to minimize those, leaving the stereo off and the
    phone put away, and while the coffee is an important part of my own
    personal road-trip fuel it rides in a covered mug with a straw that
    eliminates any risk of spilling or losing my sightline to what's ahead.
    .
    And all this without cruise control, preferring to lock my right foot
    into known "sweet spot" operational ranges for the car's engine and
    drivetrain and tweak that up and down based on what's ahead.
    .
    The primary means of risk-reduction and the key to making this all
    work is DISTANCE between vehicles, which allows the time and visibility
    to make the correct responses in a non-abrupt fashion. Abruptness
    coupled with no reaction leeway is what kills. Generous following
    distance is step 1 and the easiest for any driver to establish by
    simply not trying to go faster than a car ahead. Because of traffic
    patterns it isn't always possible to maintain the space cushion in
    all directions, particularly to the rear, but the hypermiling
    community evolves techniques both active and passive to deal with
    that too. Part of safe, efficient driving is always trying to
    re-establish that generous space when something impinges on it.
    Obviously, any sort of aerodynamic drafting would be completely at
    odds with that goal.
    .
    This style of driving implies an understanding of the physics in play,
    never losing sight of the fact that all vehicles are large heavy
    objects and it takes a lot of energy to get them moving and stopped
    again. Doing so efficiently yet smoothly in changing traffic conditions
    is an elegant blend of art and science, and as complex as it may begin
    to sound on paper it is almost paradoxically a much more relaxing,
    unhurried way to drive than what we usually see on today's roads.
    And destinations are reached in pretty much the same timeframe as by
    those who feel the need to be aggressive and threatening to other
    road users, proving time and again that the self-important illusion
    of being in a hurry gains nothing but vastly increased risk. The
    bottom line is that hypermilers are hands-down the safest drivers
    out there.
    .
    _H* 080925
     
  14. VegasDude

    VegasDude I remember you from the last light

    Semis don't have a problem drafting behind me. But, I don't like stones chipping my paint so I don't follow trucks.
     
  15. 08FIT-S

    08FIT-S Active Member

    Generally since there's some ashat camping in the far left going really slow or refusing to pass, those with lead feet try to go around the right. A like the TX state law, ALL traffic stay right unless passing. Statistics show it's the safest way to drive anyways. :cool:
     
  16. 08FIT-S

    08FIT-S Active Member

    I remember as a kid, seeing some early 80's Mazda 626 under the tail end of a trailer since she was drafting. Her girl died (she was in front) and boy lived who was right behind the drivers seat. He head was taken off and fell on his lap. I was 9/10 and have feared drafting riggs ever since (35now).
     
  17. ksstathead

    ksstathead Moderator

  18. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

  19. ksstathead

    ksstathead Moderator

    Unless the professional driver leading the train did not drive over two by fours?
     
  20. greendriver

    greendriver Well-Known Member

    I use a minimum of 2 seconds which is taught by my companies annual drivers safety course. At 60 mph that would put me 176ft behind a vehicle. (about 9 car lengths) The distance automatically increases with speed. Even at this distance I still pick up a mile or two per gal. As many have said though, it's hard to find a truck going slow enough to follow. I don't like not being able to see far out in front of me either.

    More on the 2 second rule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-second_rule
     

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